html5 ot html4

[EvaBrown]

Hello! What do you think about HTML5? As for me I prefer HTML4. I think it much better, than HTML5.

[danhodge]

Im split, but my favorite part about HTML5 is how you can do things like <footer> </footer>...

 

Means you don't have to use the div tags constantly

[Wickham]

HTML5 hasn't been released yet! It's still in draft stage

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html

although many people are coding it and most browsers can process at least some of it.

 

HTML5 goes hand-in-hand with CSS3 to offer new features which in many cases will avoid using javascript or Flash.

 

It's still too early to judge the merits of HTML5 although I use some features of CSS3 which work in all major browsers and won't cause any serious harm if they don't.

[danhodge]

You have certainly interested me, in terms of replacing Javascript...

[Andrea]

Wickham did not say HMTL5 would replace JavaScript, just that some things can be done with HTML5 & CSS3 instead of having to use JavaScript.

[danhodge]

Sorry, i rushed that message there...

 

I just meant im interested to see what parts of Javascript it could replace - could simplify a lot of code for some people

[newseed]

I am looking forward to HTML5 and CSS3 but it's just not ready for prime time yet.

 

Give it at least a couple of more years (more like 4-5 years). IE 7 and 8 will have to go away because it just simply doesn't support it. IE9 is better but not near as good as Firefox. It seems Google Chrome has the best support so far.

[EvaBrown]

I read all feedback about HTML5 version and few days ago I tried to work with it again. So far, all is progressing well.

[newseed]

You can use HTML 5 doctype with no problem. What you have to check for are the new HTML 5 tags such as <video>. Not all browser supports it. IE has probably the least amount of support whereas Google Chrome seems to support just about ever tag.

 

HTML 5 will support HTML 4 tags.

 

Same thing in regards to CSS 3.

 

So keep in mind that when using the new HTML 5 tags or CSS 3 elements be sure to test them in Safari, IE 7 & 8 (soon IE 9), Chrome and Firefox.

[EvaBrown]

Thank you, Eddie! You gave me good advices! I will keep them in mind!

[administrator]

One place where you can use HTML5 and CSS3 today is on iOS (iPad and iPhone) and on Android devices - phones and tablets as well.

 

In fact, HTML5 + CSS3 and some Javascript can take you very a long way on these devices.

 

So for forward thinking web designers, you can think of learning HTML5 and CSS3 as an investment in today and especially the future.

 

Stef

[EvaBrown]

Thank you, Stef! I appreciate your advice!

[madhusmita]

HTML5 is the more advanced version.Its very friendly with CSS and this is a big advantage of it.I am using HTML5 and I am quite comfortable as it very helpful for web designing.There is nothing that you cant do with HTML5.It got very nice up graded features.

[henrylayla]

One place where you can use HTML5 and CSS3 today is on iOS (iPad and iPhone) and on Android devices - phones and tablets as well.

 

In fact, HTML5 + CSS3 and some Javascript can take you very a long way on these devices.

 

So for forward thinking web designers, you can think of learning HTML5 and CSS3 as an investment in today and especially the future.

 

Stef

 

Great advice stefan. Looks inspiring to me. Thanks.

[10wt308]

I know this is an older topic but it is the only one I could find to address my questions.

 

1. Can we use the html5 doctype now and just not use the new tags? ( I think already answered above)

 

2. I have seen the use of the closing /> (like xhtml) with html5 doctype. Some reading says it is not allowed some say it is not necessary and I did not see on W3C it being used.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[LSW]

/> is more logical, why have opening and closing tags when their is nothing in between?

 

I have not seen where it breaks anything and I would use it if it does not cause an issue. Even the Adobe Flex framework I work with allows empty tags to be closed like this, it is becoming rather standard.

 

I just don't know if it is actually part of HTML5 from the purist point of view I normally have.

 

 

 

As for the other question, yes you can use HTML5 now, Yes it is generally well supported by the latest browsers. NO, it is not the standard, it is not an authorized language, not approved. HTML4.5 is the official standard still and will be for a while.

1. Currently HTML5 is out for comments by the web development community, us. I am not sure how long still.
2. When this ends it goes back to the working group for any last minute changes and tweaks.
3. Then it is released as a candidate and the W3C members vote to approve it.
4. Then it has replaced HTML 4.5 as the standard.

This is a long process and it has been going on for 6-8 years already from the original draft and has been well vetted and re-written multiple times.

 

My ball park guess is that we will not see HTML5 as a standard until late 2013.

 

At this point HTML5 is pretty much solid. You know how you pick a paint color, you get the color you want but the shade may very, not an "exact" match because of production or lighting or the material being painted? HTML5 may undergo some changes to the shade still, but the basics of the code are pretty solid and I would not expect any major changes anymore.

[10wt308]

Thanks for the update.

 

I have a hard time remembering the older doctypes and would like to use the new one and only integrate the new features as browsers comply.

 

I just feel like "<br>" is unfinished and would like to use "<br />" and same with "<img />" as long as it won't break things. Don't have a good reason as I don't have much experience.

 

Thanks again

 

Tom

[LSW]

I just feel like "<br>" is unfinished and would like to use "<br />" and same with "<img />" as long as it won't break things. Don't have a good reason as I don't have much experience.

That is because it just seems more logical, natural that way I think. I am all for it. It looks cleaner.

[newseed]

Thanks for the update.

 

I have a hard time remembering the older doctypes and would like to use the new one and only integrate the new features as browsers comply.

 

I just feel like "<br>" is unfinished and would like to use "<br />" and same with "<img />" as long as it won't break things. Don't have a good reason as I don't have much experience.

 

Thanks again

 

Tom

True that it doesn't break the site. However, if you want your site to validate then you ought to use the proper html for whatever doctype you use. Standard HTML uses <br> while XHTML uses <br />. I don't recall if HTML5 uses one or the other or both. I guess you could google it.

[Wickham]

True that it doesn't break the site. However, if you want your site to validate then you ought to use the proper html for whatever doctype you use. Standard HTML uses <br> while XHTML uses <br />. I don't recall if HTML5 uses one or the other or both. I guess you could google it.

 

I've noticed that the validator doesn't raise any errors or warnings if you have a mixture of closed and self-closed tags like <br> or <br />

 

It just raises one warning about HTML5 being an experimental feature.

 

Personally, I've gone back to html with <br> etc.

 

EDIT: I've just found this

http://tiffanybbrown.com/2011/03/23/html5-does-not-allow-self-closing-tags/

which differentiates between tags that have no content <br> and meta tags. We're all wrong (but is the link correct?).

 

HTML5 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#normal-elements

is extremely long but I notice it has

<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="20; URL=page4.html">
<hr>
<p><img src="carouge.svg" alt="The coat of arms depicts a lion, sitting in front of a tree."></p>
<p>P. Sherman<br>
42 Wallaby Way<br>
Sydney</p>

but note that the <p> is closed with </p> whereas in old HTML the </p> could be omitted. HTML5 spec says "A p element's end tag [ the full end tag </p> ] may be omitted if the p element is immediately followed by an address, article, aside, blockquote, dir, div, dl, fieldset, footer, form, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, header, hgroup, hr, menu, nav, ol, p, pre, section, table, or ul, element, or if there is no more content in the parent element and the parent element is not an a element."

 

hr img and br are not shown with a space/slash.

 

I don't use self-closing tags like

<p>The coat of arms depicts a lion, sitting in front of a tree. />

but it seems that these are allowed (for meta tags too, I suppose).

Edited December 23, 2011 by Wickham

[10wt308]

I was learning html, then xhtml seemed to be the way to go and I liked the rules. You will use lower case and close what you open etc.

 

 

Wickham

"Personally, I've gone back to html with <br> etc."

 

What doc type do you use?

 

I like the "simplicity" of the html5 type but if the world is not ready yet I will wait. Also the validation with conditions bothers me. Might be a character flaw.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[newseed]

I was learning html, then xhtml seemed to be the way to go and I liked the rules. You will use lower case and close what you open etc.

XHMTL no longer seems to be in development and more than likely has been discarded due to HTML5. It doesn't mean you cant' use it but it just means it's going to become obsolete someday. Maybe in 5 years XHTML will be unheard of for new comers of the web design world but it will still be around because...well..people are either stuck on what they know or they just simply do not keep the site up to date.

[Wickham]

Wickham

"Personally, I've gone back to html with <br> etc."

 

What doc type do you use?

 

I like the "simplicity" of the html5 type but if the world is not ready yet I will wait. Also the validation with conditions bothers me. Might be a character flaw.

 

Badly worded by me. I meant that I use HTML5 doctype now, but with the old HTML4 method of closing tags, <br> etc.

[newseed]

The HTML <!DOCTYPE HTML> is really not a HTML5 doctype because it's not limited to just HTML5. Setting that doctype for older sites will still render the site correctly thus keep it from going into quirks mode. Where it doesn't work are the older browsers like Netscape (what?), IE5, etc. What about IE6? Yep, even IE6 is considered a modern browser and so <!DOCTYPE HTML> will still work.

 

There's an old article (2004) about browser wars and doctypes.

 

Of course this is my humble opinion but I think the new doctype was given a indentify associated with HTML5 so that it's not to be confused with previous existing doctypes. It's all about marketing. You can't market something that doesn't have an indentity.

 

[10wt308]

Thanks for that, I have more reading to do.

 

I have not posted much on here but I have read a lot and appreciate the help everyone gives. I have also enrolled in Killer U and have learned tons already from the videos.

 

Thanks again

 

Tom

 

edit: Wickham... I think that's what I will do