Dynamic sites and what it takes..

[Ant]

So far I have gotten a very good handle on CSS and html.

 

My next obstacle is understanding what the FULL STORY is on a dynamic website.

 

I want to understand what it takes to build one. Is it more of a programmers language? Should I be using some of those "shortcut" options i.e http://www.iUpdateIt.com. Do the majority of "professional" web designer learn PHP etc or????

 

 

For instance my company uses a web designer who also works with a "database guy" as he's referred to. I assume thats the person responsible for allowing our editors to change stories each day and photos. Whereas the web designer is the one who designed our site through HTML but is not schooled in dynamic site design to do the whole thing himself.

 

Is it common for a web designer to know both. Or is it common to work with a database person to bring client side changes to the table.

 

All these questions stem from how much time it has taken me to learn css/html and to then realize that I still need to learn dynamic design, javascript etc...

 

I've been a graphic designer for 11 years and still learn a lot each day. I cant imagine the time it takes to be both a graphic designer and a COMPLETE web designer.

 

 

Thanks

Ant

[falkencreative]

Do the majority of "professional" web designer learn PHP etc or????

 

I think it depends on what you are interested in and what you naturally gravitate towards.

 

I'd say that a "professional" web designer should be expert with front end production (CSS, HTML, some Javascript) and should know some basics about both design and programming PHP or similar (ASP.NET, etc). Especially now-a-days with CMS's like Wordpress, people do expect web designers to know a content management system and be able to work with it, so some programming knowledge is definitely helpful there. However, I don't think people expect that you are going to be an expert at everything.

 

Similarly, a web developer -- someone who works with dynamic languages like PHP and has knowledge of how databases work and how to interact with them -- should be expert at that, and should have very good knowledge of HTML/CSS, but may not know that much about design.

 

Basically, pick an area to specialize in, and then have at least basic knowledge everywhere else. Most people fall into either a web designer or a web developer category, but there are some that are good at both. If you do try to be good at both, you really have to have the time to put in to learn everything, and be the type of person who is both good at the designing/creative aspect and the coding/logical aspect.

[Ant]

Do the majority of "professional" web designer learn PHP etc or????

 

I think it depends on what you are interested in and what you naturally gravitate towards.

 

I'd say that a "professional" web designer should be expert with front end production (CSS, HTML, some Javascript) and should know some basics about both design and programming PHP or similar (ASP.NET, etc). Especially now-a-days with CMS's like Wordpress, people do expect web designers to know a content management system and be able to work with it, so some programming knowledge is definitely helpful there. However, I don't think people expect that you are going to be an expert at everything.

 

Similarly, a web developer -- someone who works with dynamic languages like PHP and has knowledge of how databases work and how to interact with them -- should be expert at that, and should have very good knowledge of HTML/CSS, but may not know that much about design.

 

Basically, pick an area to specialize in, and then have at least basic knowledge everywhere else. Most people fall into either a web designer or a web developer category, but there are some that are good at both. If you do try to be good at both, you really have to have the time to put in to learn everything, and be the type of person who is both good at the designing/creative aspect and the coding/logical aspect.

 

 

 

thanks Falken.

 

I didn't realize there was a difference between web designer & web developers. I thought they were the same. So a web developer is a web designer that also knows programming? Programming to mean being other than HTML/CSS/Javascript?

 

So far in 3 possible websites I may get involved in, 2 have already inquired about making changes themselves. These are not high end companies,(all friends websites) but still it's frustrating that I cant give them what they want because I havent learned how to allow them to make changes themselves. I can only assume in the DISTANT future(due to my learning curve) all I'm going to be asked for are dynamic websites.

 

Is there a term that describes a web designer thats also a graphic designer? I know that sounds like a stupid question. I always thought that web designers were not necessarily graphic designers. Do you think that's norm?

 

Ant

[falkencreative]

I didn't realize there was a difference between web designer & web developers. I thought they were the same. So a web developer is a web designer that also knows programming? Programming to mean being other than HTML/CSS/Javascript?

 

The exact answer may depend on who you ask, but yes, that's how I define it. Web designers primarily work with design and front end code (HTML/CSS/Javascript) and web developers work with more difficult programming languages (PHP, ASP.NET, MySQL, etc). If you ask a "true" programmer (not sure how I would define this, but someone who has a lot of experience and most likely has experience with non-web programming languages), they'll probably tell you that HTML/CSS isn't really programming, or at least is a very low level form of programming.

 

A lot of clients do want the ability to be able to update content, and to be honest, I think that's a good thing. Doing picky maintenance work is usually a pain for all involved -- the web designer usually doesn't like doing it (time could be better spent elsewhere) and the client has to wait around till the designer has the time to make the edits. That's where learning something like Wordpress or another content management system can be really helpful. Most CMS's don't require you to learn the programming language that they are based in (for example, Wordpress is written in PHP) but it helps to have at least a general understanding of the language.

 

Is there a term that describes a web designer thats also a graphic designer? I know that sounds like a stupid question. I always thought that web designers were not necessarily graphic designers. Do you think that's norm?

I don't think there's a term for a web designer that's also a graphic designer other than "web designer" unfortunately. I do agree though -- not all web designers have graphic design skills, but the opposite also applies -- having a background in graphic design doesn't necessarily make you a great web designer either. The basic concepts apply, but web and print are two very different worlds. In my personal case, since I do all three (though I'm stronger in some areas than others), I go by "graphic designer | web designer | web developer".

 

My guess is that most people who call themselves web designers aren't necessarily design oriented, thought there is a trend for graphic designers to also learn how to do web work. Just depends on their background.

[krillz]

You should know enough of everything that enables you to add the rest of the framework.

 

If we take a proffesional project you will have different groups doing different things and depending on what your job entitles, the answer can be both yes or no. But remember the more skills you have the more you will be used.

 

Let's assume you get hired and you are developing some kind of new service first of a kind.

You'll have

 

Coders [programmers, SQL gurus, etc etc]

Mathematicians [ algoritms, optimizations ]

Interaction designers [ coducting tests to determine the best user-friendly and what a user wants way to display the graphic interface]

Designers [ getting the data from the interaction designers and producing the graphical interface]

Testers [ testing parts of or the whole products to ensure it meets the goals ]

 

And all will be doing their stuff, and at the end you reach the point where the design needs to meet the code. Design stuff is given to the coders who then incoperate it to the framework as they have a clearer picture of how all works.

 

But in web business it's not uncommon for this task to be left with the designers. If you're lucky the framework is well coded and adding it is just a matter of adding a few lines here and there. But if your unlucky then it can take a lot effort to incoperating the design.

 

To sum this up; Yes you should have enough knowledge so you without any problems could add your design to the existing codebase. Especially if you have a small business as the clients will expect you to not only create the design, but also adding it to their CMS of choice.

A way of doing this is to hire a coder to your team, or learn and do it yourself.

Edited March 6, 2010 by krillz