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Framed Hybrid website review please


threebirds

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For those that have a few toolbars for their browser, your left frame hides behind the bottom of the browser and there is no way to scroll up or down (i.e. ASTM links under the left image column do not appear.

 

When you sent that screengrab of the scrollbar error, I about choked. I'd never seen so much "chrome" on an IE browser window in my life. At least 30% of the screen was gobbled up. You must've been going for a worst case scenario. :) Tell me you don't normally browse on that tight of a screen.

 

You've been the shining example on this forum of getting past emotion and getting down to brass tacks. Real results. Thanks.

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...and if you didn't use frames, your expenses would be higher?

 

Absolutely yes. Everyone's life and time are a precious commodity. I charge for the exchange of my skills and mind. I and my clients want customized results fast. Otherwise, without Frames, my delivery would be longer (lead time), my client?le would pay more, I'd then lose my competitive edge. The very disposable nature of my web products wouldn't be possible. More time is spent on what really matters: presentation, content, and information scent. I sell my clients what they need, but within boundaries, not what is the vanguard of the day. I screen my customers. I turn away 50% of my walk-ins because my solutions are NOT what they need. The rejects are either unpleasant or micromanagers. Or they may be unprepared or can't supply me content fast enough. All of them know nothing about optimization, coding, or hosting, or SEO, etc. I provide all that for them in a Frames package.

 

This site took 45 days- start to finish for me and a story researcher. No content was provided. But I can build a multi-page website where the content is prepared in advance in less than 8 hours and charge $500 to $1700 for it. Do the math. $62/hour on the low end. I get paid $350 per page for one page scrolling websites. which I deliver in less than 24-hours. That is what HTML Frames do for me. It's all about optimizing production process for profitability. It leaves me time to waste on forums and dreaming. :)

 

Frames are fast and simple.

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The solution was removing this line of code:

 

 

The proper doctype for frames pages is


Otherwise, without Frames, my delivery would be longer (lead time)
Maybe you should use some of your spare time and educate yourself about how PHP Includes work - you'll have the EXACT benefits of frames without ANY of the disadvantages.

 

But from the tone in your posts, it's quite obvious that you're not here to learn, so by all means, keep using frames. Looking at the code on one of your fabulous frames pages, one finds this:


CELLSPACING="0" WIDTH="80%">




 


      WIDTH="197" HEIGHT="85" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" 

CELLSPACING="0" WIDTH="80%">




 


      WIDTH="197" HEIGHT="85" ALIGN="BOTTOM" BORDER="0" NATURALSIZEFLAG="3">       COLOR="#000000" FACE="Verdana">      NOSHADE SIZE="1">


 


Accurate Ampacity
     Calculations Depend on Measured Rho Values

="3">       COLOR="#000000" FACE="Verdana">      NOSHADE SIZE="1">


 


Accurate Ampacity
     Calculations Depend on Measured Rho Values

After you look up PHP Includes, or actually, I'd do it before, look up CSS (as in EXTERNAL STYLESHEET) --- you'll be blow away by how much time that can save you - enough time to then educate yourself about NOT using tables for layout, NOT using deprecated tags, semantic use of PROPER HTML Tags (why in the world would you put a font color and a bold tag around an IMAGE?????), not using empty

tags to create space............ And 'NATURALSIZEFLAG' does not even show up on the W3S website.

 

You are more than welcome to come join us in the current century of modern, validating, functional, SEO friendly, user friendly, semantic, practical, and standard compliant coding, or you can stay where you are. The little bit of code I posted above shows as clear as anything that you have NOTHING to teach any of us, unless we want to learn about stone-age coding practices - some folks do get into that nostalgia stuff..........

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The proper doctype for frames pages is

 

No duh? What's your point? That wouldn't have fixed IE6 either. IE6 is dog food.

 

But from the tone in your posts, it's quite obvious that you're not here to learn, so by all means, keep using frames. Looking at the code on one of your fabulous frames pages, one finds this: abhorent example then follows

 

What's your point? Am I supposed to feel embarrassed? Does this mean I'm stupid? Does it mean I can no longer support my family doing websites? Does it mean the site doesn't work? Are you secretly emotionally distressed about sloppy coders who are eager to get paid? Or do you just like the intellectual duel of putting people down?

 

After you look up PHP Includes, or actually, I'd do it before, look up CSS (as in EXTERNAL STYLESHEET)

 

GASP! You can do that? What if I deliberately chose not to? Will the web fall apart?

 

You are more than welcome to come join us in the current century of modern, validating, functional, SEO friendly, user friendly, semantic, practical, and standard compliant coding, or you can stay where you are.

 

Ouch! Was that slander? Or libel? You're making fun of my old age and debilities aren't you? Look. I'm bleeding.

 

The little bit of code I posted above shows as clear as anything that you have NOTHING to teach any of us, unless we want to learn about stone-age coding practices - some folks do get into that nostalgia stuff..........

 

Sob! Please stop! I didn't come here to teach coding. Or learn coding. I came here to breath the fresh air of tolerance and peace while having a Framed site reviewed.

 

Thelma, you've gone over the edge. Get a grip. You're so easily provoked.

 

I really bugs you that I can code crap and get paid for it. Doesn't it? It sort of destroys the whole illusion of your "web profession." It's like doing dentistry with a saw and hammer. There is no regulatory agency to prevent "quacks" like me from delivering usable websites with shortcuts, workarounds and hacks. No accreditation. And to the unsavvy client it appears to be extraordinary performance and magic, because they don't know diddly about the "invisible" side of the web.

 

Can you believe I just got a government grant to build websites for small businesses? That makes the steam boil, eh? Because of my track record in real-world measurable results! In the end, it's all about credibility, isn't it? I have none with you because I don't live by your rules. That's not how I measure you. I just see you as extremely judgmental. I have no time to do it "perfect" like you. Life is short.

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Thelma and Friends-

 

I've enjoyed the stimulation of your company and minds. I've bigger fish to fry now so I won't be back for awhile. I haven't been so well pounced other than by religious fanatics. I'm sure Thelma won't miss me and my anti-establishment rebel attitude. I did generate quite a bit of good content for the search engines in your behalf. :)

 

While Thelma tried hardest to get my goat, it was just all too predictable. She just couldn't stay out of it militarily or emotionally. I can smell the smoke all the way from Texas.

 

To those who actually found and solved website browser related problems, you're the best and I have gratitude for your brilliance and willingness to help. Thanks.

 

- End of File-

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Sob! Please stop! I didn't come here to teach coding. Or learn coding.

Some members just cant even read the forum title properly.

Well, this particular quote will go to my QOTD page surely.

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All I want to add is that if you view the website on a bigger resolution the image quality is very poor. So I doubt that the whole "liquid" flash thingy is the way to go. Plus nobody really cares on how much money you can make out of poor coding. You can be a drug dealer that sells bad weed, you will make your money but at some point you will get overshadowed by a better website developer. All you do is count on your client's ignorance to make your precious money.

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I'm not a fan of frames. that's all i really have to say on that. after all I'm new to this side of creation.

 

Anyway with regards to your site well it's easier to show you but the article arrows didn't sync up when i was resized to 1024. alhough it did look fine at my full screen resolution.

 

it's a minor thing but that's all i got for ya

 

http://img34.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=fullscreenok.png

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Clearly you have come here with a chip on your shoulder to cause trouble. From the start you have been snotty and riled at everything said here.

 

GASP! You can do that? What if I deliberately chose not to? Will the web fall apart?

That about sums it up. You deliberately withheld information. You set up a trap and we tapped into it. Good for you.

 

If you had simply stated I know what I am doing is not standards oriented nor best practice. I have deliberately chosen to do it this way. This thread would not be this long.

 

This is a teaching community, we teach best practices. Most folks coming here do not know better so we point out problems and teach them how to do things better per our morals as a group. We all agree on how to do things and that is why we are here. People who do not, either do not join or leave when they decide they do not fit in because they want to do things the old ways, or do not care about folks with disabilities or whatever reason.

 

You chose to stay even though I am now sure that you intended for this to happen, like the other forums you mentioned you have been in where I suspect you did the same things. If you had made it clear that you know all the ups and downs of using frames and you still chose to... fine.

 

I have rebuilt web sites before from designers who have taken money for sub-standard work, they are a bane to this career field. Good ones take pride in their work and I hope you are not one of the take the money and run types.

 

I am sure there are forums out there where you will fit right in with others bashing standards or teaching the use of frames etc. We are not one of those. Based on your attitude I hope you do not come back, you seem more interested in causing problems than anything else, but I may be wrong, first impressions are not always right.

 

If you know the issues behind frames, fine, choose to use them, they are still "legal." But this community takes the high road that they are more trouble than they are worth and you can do it other ways that are better for many reasons in our combined opinions. If XFrames gain a foot hold, fine, they should correct many of the Frames problems. This thread is closed.

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