Comments on: Tag Soup: why using XHTML does not make sense. http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/ Real world talk about web design, programming and the business of web design. Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:07:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Kyle http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-224 Kyle Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:35:17 +0000 http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-224 Hi Robin, you are missing the point. If you read up on XHTML at the W3C you will see that XHTML is meant to be served as XML (application/xhtml+xml). XHTML is XML and not HTML. You may be writing XHTML, but it is being served as HTML, this is called Tag soup. If you check the page info with Firefox or Mozilla you will see it shows text/html. MimeTypes are sent when the page is requested, so you must tell the server you wish to have application/xhtml+xml. So you must use Content negotiation for this. IE can read tag soup, with XHTML 1.0 you may serve XHTML with text/htmlas long as it meets Appendix C. But XHTML 1.1 and the upcoming 2.0 MUST be served as application/xhtml+xml. That is when IE will puke. As long as you write XHTML but gove the browser HTML to show, yes it will work in IE as well. You should try the test suite I linked above and read some of the links I posted on the forum, it will clear things up better than we can here in comments. If you are a member fo the forum just ask on the linked thread above and I can get into more detail. LSW Hi Robin,
you are missing the point. If you read up on XHTML at the W3C you will see that XHTML is meant to be served as XML (application/xhtml+xml). XHTML is XML and not HTML.

You may be writing XHTML, but it is being served as HTML, this is called Tag soup. If you check the page info with Firefox or Mozilla you will see it shows text/html.

MimeTypes are sent when the page is requested, so you must tell the server you wish to have application/xhtml+xml. So you must use Content negotiation for this.

IE can read tag soup, with XHTML 1.0 you may serve XHTML with text/htmlas long as it meets Appendix C. But XHTML 1.1 and the upcoming 2.0 MUST be served as application/xhtml+xml. That is when IE will puke. As long as you write XHTML but gove the browser HTML to show, yes it will work in IE as well. You should try the test suite I linked above and read some of the links I posted on the forum, it will clear things up better than we can here in comments. If you are a member fo the forum just ask on the linked thread above and I can get into more detail.

LSW

]]> By: Stefan Mischook http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-223 Stefan Mischook Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:10:42 +0000 http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-223 @Kyle, As always , great comments. Thanks @Kyle,

As always , great comments.

Thanks

]]> By: Kyle http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-222 Kyle Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:22:52 +0000 http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-222 IE is the only major browser that will puke using application/xhtml+xml, but being 70% - 80% (dependig on the source) of the market, that is a big problem. The second biggest problem is that by sending it as application/xhtml+xml, you are correctly serving it as XML, this means if your page has even one error, the parsing will stop and the user will see nothing more than a white page with a error. So your page has to be perfect. The rest ofthe quirks are discussed in the mentioned thread. But as quick links may I suggest you call up the following test page in Firefox/Mozilla/Opera, and then open it up in IE to see what we mean. (http://juicystudio.com/mimetest/xhtmldoc.php) Ths is one (the second) of the tests created by Gez Lemon to show the problems with XHTML being served correctly or as "Tag Soup" (XHTML written, but served to the browser as HTML by using text/html, the default setting). (http://juicystudio.com/mimetest/index.php) I personally know many "Standards Zealots" who do not support the use of XHTML as tag soup suggesting that HTML is fine for 99% of all web sites. Gez Lemon, Redux and Tommy Olsson to name a few. Stef is right, ifyou are still going to use it (as I do on my personal sites, not customer sites anymore), then read up on it and understand the matters at hand first and make a informed decision. Good article Stef, short, but good **grin** IE is the only major browser that will puke using application/xhtml+xml, but being 70% - 80% (dependig on the source) of the market, that is a big problem.

The second biggest problem is that by sending it as application/xhtml+xml, you are correctly serving it as XML, this means if your page has even one error, the parsing will stop and the user will see nothing more than a white page with a error. So your page has to be perfect.

The rest ofthe quirks are discussed in the mentioned thread. But as quick links may I suggest you call up the following test page in Firefox/Mozilla/Opera, and then open it up in IE to see what we mean. (http://juicystudio.com/mimetest/xhtmldoc.php)

Ths is one (the second) of the tests created by Gez Lemon to show the problems with XHTML being served correctly or as “Tag Soup” (XHTML written, but served to the browser as HTML by using text/html, the default setting). (http://juicystudio.com/mimetest/index.php)

I personally know many “Standards Zealots” who do not support the use of XHTML as tag soup suggesting that HTML is fine for 99% of all web sites. Gez Lemon, Redux and Tommy Olsson to name a few.

Stef is right, ifyou are still going to use it (as I do on my personal sites, not customer sites anymore), then read up on it and understand the matters at hand first and make a informed decision.

Good article Stef, short, but good **grin**

]]> By: Robin Brace http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-221 Robin Brace Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:22:36 +0000 http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/tag-soup-why-using-xhtml-does-make-sense/#comment-221 Hi There! I take some of your points, but I converted around 90 % of my web pages to XHTML Trans this September and all of those pages do load really easily on IE6 although your article says that this does not happen. Maybe I would have a problem if they were XHTML Pure, although - there again - I pesonally use IE6 and have no probs with web pages written in XHTML Pure. Robin. Hi There!
I take some of your points, but I converted around 90 % of my web pages to XHTML Trans this September and all of those pages do load really easily on IE6 although your article says that this does not happen. Maybe I would have a problem if they were XHTML Pure, although - there again - I pesonally use IE6 and have no probs with web pages written in XHTML Pure.

Robin.

]]>